Well, I don't know how this is going to work, but I've decided to put the Bible Study on a separate blog that is linked to this page, but not on this page. This is partly so I can continue having a blog that is completely dedicated to the reading and study of the Bible, but also have space to have posts on other things. So Catholic-Quaker will be a place I can post my ideas about other things.
How is it possible to consider oneself a Roman Catholic AND and Friend/Quaker? I consider the Catholic Church to be the original home of the gospel of Christ at least in the west. The Eastern Orthodox Churches go back to the beginning too, but I am from the western world. The separation of church and secular state is something achieved by the church in the west and I think that was a good thing. There is a lot of history and a lot of religious diversity within the Catholic Church that a lot of people don't appreciate. There is a deep tradition of mysticism and many stories of individuals feeling "called" by God to live out their faith in different ways. As my husband once said, I am drawn by the history and the mystery of the church.
Then how can I be a Quaker as well? Quakers arose in 17th c. England in a landscape of religious ferment brought on by the Protestant Reformation. With the rebellion of Martin Luther and the crumbling of church unity that came as a result of his prophetic call, the political ferment of the times, the revolutionary role of the printing press and people's access to the Scriptures and the church's inability or unwillingness to respond constructively, a whole array of new voices emerged and many groups that believed that they had recovered a vision of the gospel that was truer, more faithful than what the church was teaching. I think that many if not most of these voices were authentically prophetic and should have been listened to better. George Fox was one of these voices, and his vision of Christ's gospel - the new covenant and "gate" or portal into the Kingdom of God - as a way we could truly enter into Life as God meant us to live it. The difference between Fox's message and the messages of St. Francis or probably many other holy people was the this was a way not just for those who committed to "religious life" as the Catholic Church understood it - it was for all lay people who wished to live the consecrated life.
Thank you for visiting me.☺ I am fascinated that anyone who is Catholic & Western should consider the Catholic Church the *founding* church. Certainly it imposed it's view of Christianity on the rest & I am a little dodgy with numbers & dates but certainly that is not so for Britain, which had it's own version of Christianity for many, many years prior to Catholic dominance ~ & not everyone in the British church was thrilled about that. Amongst the Culdees there are scapings of evidence that trace them straight back to the driuds & certainly the Celtic peoples were amongst the most open to conversion as they already had a concept of triunity amongst their godhoods & a long tradition of mysticism. I don't mean to be argumentative but I would be very curious to hear your views on this. Whether I agree or not it will better help my understanding in this whole area.Thank you for a very interesting post. Blessings. Ganeida.
ReplyDeleteHow exciting is this! Talking with someone from Australia! And a very insightful person too. I had actually never heard of the Culdees or Celtic Christianity, but I thank you for introducing me to this. I am sure the early history of the church is a lot messier, less centralized and organized than we make it. I taught history for nearly 20 years and am very into history, but I guess there is still a lot I don't know. I know the consolidation of authority in the RC Church probably took a very long time, but I see continuity there I don't see Quakerism and any of the proliferating number of denominations. I wrote a book on my journey a few years ago and you can get it for basically shipping costs from Amazon. It's called Leadings: A Catholics Journey Through Quakerism. I tried for ten years to bring the Quaker vision to people in my parish. It went OK - very few but a few who have been important to me. Mostly though any individual and "lay" call gets lost in the Catholic environment. So I do both now - and I am pretty involved in both my faith communities. A very interesting new book on The Origins of Political Order by Francis Fukuyama, which I bought for my new Kindle, spends a couple of chapters on the importance of the Catholic Church in the political development of European "states" and on the development of the rule of law in the west. I will check your blog out on a regular basis. It's beautifully done and the posts are very good. Blessings to you too.
ReplyDeleteCQ: I live on a very small island. The net is truly a lifesaver for me.
ReplyDeleteI am a history freak ~ within a fairly limited time frame. Outside of that I am less sure of things but my period is pre~Christian Britain & early Celtic Christianity; the more obscure the better in my book. I like speculative history. lol
As a political entity I think the Catholic church is without parallel ~ but is that what it should ever have been about? One of the things that sank Celtic Christianity was it's lack of political acumen. They were far more busy saving heathen Europe from themselves than playing politics. Cahill's How the Irish saved Civilisation discusses some of the little known history of Celtic Christianity & it's impact on Europe as the barbaric hordes swept across the continent. He's very readable too, which is important, don't you think?
My degree is in English Lit so readability is high on my priority. So nice to *meet* you. ☺
Hello Rene - I realize this is an old post! If you happen to see this message, though, could you recommend any resources related to connecting Catholicism and Quakerism?
ReplyDeleteI know a few pagan/wiccan Quakers and Christian Quakers, but their traditions are more compatible with each other - they make it look so easy!
Hi again, Katy - There are a few things I've found "out there" but there are not many. I think individuals work out the link as best they can. I was inspired by an article Ann K Riggs wrote some years back: The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) As a Religious Community. I have it and can send it to you if you let me know your email, or you might find it online. Some people I know attend Quaker Meeting and also do Lectio Divino at a local Seminary. I involve myself with a parish and a monthly meeting and you certainly can check out my book called Leadings: A Catholic's Journey Through Quakerism; it's super-cheap on Amazon. Hope that's enough to get you started.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much! I will take a look at your book, and I found the other article online, too. Certainly a great start - thanks again.
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ReplyDeleteHello Rene, I was fascinated to read about your Catholic Quaker dichotomy. I was raised a Quaker from the age of 8 but have recently been baptised, confirmed and received into the Catholic Church. Whilst there are some obvious differences between the two, there are also many similarities, for example the prayerful silence which intersperses the liturgies and the deep and mystical spirituality which I feel the two share. I am hugely excited about my journey in faith and hope to take with and honour my Quaker roots into my newly found Catholic faith. I look forward with interest to reading your little book, I love learning about others' faith journeys and am especially interested by stories of those who have converted to Catholicism.
ReplyDeleteGanaida, do not be put off by "bad" Catholicism and the Protestant propaganda you may have been fed. I am British and can tell you that I have discovered that those who write the history books create an angle that is not always accurate or true (for example, why do we refer to "bloody" Mary when King Henry and Queen Elizabeth were just as bloody if not bloodier?!). Within any denomination there are good and bad (and yes that does include the Quakers too, many of whom invested in and were pro slavery, especially in the early days). May I recommend a book called: "Stripping of the Alters" by Eamon Duffy. Also Ireland, and Cornwall (where I live) are both celtic country which have a huge Celtic-Christian heritage which is very much bound up with Catholicism (for example in the revering of the many celtic saints) which was very aggressively wiped out by Protestant reform and the likes of Cromwell. We used to have a beautiful tradition of blessing the crops on Rogation Day here in Cornwall, but the Protestants banned it, much to the sadness of local folk, who replaced it with the more secular tradition of "beating the bounds". You may also be interested to read "Catholic Trivia" by Mark Elvius (he mentions many things like this). I think it's wonderful that you have set up this blog to enable open minded and respectful dialogue like this. God bless.
Hello.
ReplyDeleteI am a Catholic who for the past three years has been undergoing what some may term spiritual experiences and others mental illness. My experiences have encompassed a wide range of beliefs and mythologies, but the latest has pointed me very firmly towards the Society of Friends. I have been dissatisfied with Catholicism for a good while now but I hoped I could somehow find a way to be truthful to myself whilst remaining within the Church. However, this episode, coupled with the retrograde actions of our Archbishop in banning general absolution, has convinced me of the need to walk away from the Church and join the Quakers. It's not possible for me to follow both paths at the same time. The Society of Friends are an inclusive assembly, whilst the Church (now more than ever) is building walls and excluding people.
I wish you well on your journey. Each person has to decide what road to take. There are many wonderful dioceses though. I you are anywhere near NYC, the Church of Francis Xavier on 14th St. is amazing. I took a "Lay Spirits" class or program there for more than a year and it was great. Quakers will remind you always, that it is the inward teacher that is most important. God bless!
DeleteHi - I just found your blog searching for information about Quakers because I've become interested in helping the Elizabeth Fry Society - she was a Quaker. As a youth I read "The Christian's Secret of a Happy Life" by Hannah Whital Smith. I was baptised and raised Lutheran but became frustrated generally with hypocrisy in different protestant groups and controversies about mental health while teaching (English and Social Studies in Alberta, Canada) throughout my career as I moved on in School counselling, so I enrolled in RCIA classes taught by a Catholic Priest to learn more about Church history and accepted the Sacrament of Confirmation about 10 years ago. I am retired from teaching school now. Tonight we had a Christmas carol service at our parish and one of our Deacons told us about the meaning of the "12 days of Christmas" - the verses are coded catechesis tool from way back when Catholics were so persecuted in England similarly as Quakers were for not paying taxes - and so many Priests were executed or fled England or were perhaps some Bishops and Cardinals were called back to Rome for their own protection - or to be sent to other countries more welcoming of them. Do you also know about the matrydom of St. Margaret Clitherow? I learned about her life while reading Sigrid Undset's "Stages on the Road". I am glad for what I learned reading "the Christian's Secret of a Happy Life" so long ago, but I am gladder now that I have been taught to better understand and appreciate the Sacraments as the means through which our Triune God shares the 7 gifts of His Holy Spirit.
ReplyDeleteIt also seems interesting that one of Hannah Whilttal Smith's daughters married Bertrand Russel very young - but Wikipedia says he divorced her - a source on wikipedia says he found Smith "controlling and cruel". It seems to me that a lot of people who suffer difficulties in their marriages where they were married in a church - then divorce struggle as lapsed church attenders. Here in Canada we just saw the movie "the Case for Christ" via Netflix - really good! I will try to get a copy of your book.
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